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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0000063OpenMPTFeature Requestpublic2011-04-19 12:38
ReporterLPChip Assigned To 
PrioritylowSeveritymajorReproducibilityalways
Status closedResolutionwon't fix 
Platformx64OSWindowsOS Version7
Product VersionOpenMPT 1.18.03.00 (upgrade first) 
Summary0000063: Improving soundquality
Description

When I shown one of my latest songs to a friend, I got the feedback: this sounds like its coming from a tracker.

What he ment was, a modern DAW has a higher quality. The sound from OpenMPT's sound engine is slightly mudded. First I thought he was joking, but I started to do some tests.

I remember BeRoTracker claiming it to have better sound than Modplug, so I started to compare both. Modules with samples obviously play better in BeRo, but also songs with VSTi only sounded barely better. I then tried the same experiment with Renoise, and I was shocked. In Renoise, using VSTi, the sound is much more clear. There really is a noticable difference. So I started to do some more investigation and the following discovery stunned me even more.

I started EnergyXT, Loaded in the OpenMPT 1.17.02.48 VSTi plugin (http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=18.0) and played the song I play in OpenMPT 1.18.3.00 and compared the two. The song sounds much clearer in the VSTi version because that way it uses the hosts sound engine. I tested this both in EnergyXT and in Renoise, and the sound was nearly identical in quality.

I really hope this can be improved either by changing the audio engine somehow, or by releasing a newer version of the VSTi, so I can use the VSTi to do mixing/mastering in.

Steps To Reproduce

Load the OpenMPT VSTi version into another sequencer while having OpenMPT open. Load the same song that uses VSTi's only, and compare the sound of both.

TagsNo tags attached.
Attached Files
Openmpt_issue_000063.png (395,802 bytes)
Has the bug occurred in previous versions?
Tested code revision (in case you know it)

Activities

relabs

relabs

2011-02-01 21:25

developer   ~0000047

Did you check that's it's not due to bad settings(e.g. too low 'WFIR cutoff factor')?

Saga Musix

Saga Musix

2011-02-01 21:47

administrator   ~0000048

Please provide reproducable evidence before making such claims. The OpenMPT VSTi uses exactly the same rendering methods as OpenMPT itself, so it could just be that:

  • You are using different playback settings (as relabs mentioned)
  • EnergyXT has louder sound output (which is often perceived as better quality)
  • You are using a different output driver.
LPChip

LPChip

2011-02-02 16:14

manager   ~0000049

I have had the WFIR cutoff to 150% and higher, but whatever setting I try it always is a bit muddy. I miss sound in the higher frequencies.

Its not based on loudness nor is there a difference in audio output driver. They all use my Onboard ASIO driver set to Front L/R (default)

The WFIR cutoff at 97%(default) is even worse than the 150%. Going higher adds unwanted noise. I'll try to figure out how to render an MP3 from EnergyXT or Renoise to compare with OpenMPT's output. I can even record a video to show that I'm not cheating.

LPChip

LPChip

2011-02-02 17:23

manager   ~0000050

Sucks... I did a windows 7 reinstall, and it messed up something. My sound now is terrible so I'll need to do another reinstall. Once done, I'll look into getting an example for comparison out.

LPChip

LPChip

2011-02-02 23:41

manager   ~0000051

Windows reinstalled, and everything is fine again. I have attached a screenshot that shows the difference in the wavefile with Sonogram information so you can see that the VSTi has more high frequencies.

I can't attach the wave files, so I uploaded them here:
http://files.lpchip.nl/temp/Chill_in_2_versions_wav.7z (94.4mb)

On a sidenote: If I load the VSTi version inside EnergyXT, and from whitin the VSTi version, I do file->export, I get the same quality wav file as from OpenMPT 1.18. When I render from EnergyXT however, I get a better quality song.

If I set the outputdevice in the VSTi to my HDMI (which is my television) I still hear the sound through EnergyXT and EnergyXT shows its meters that it receives audio. So its clear that the sound goes through the EnergyXT soundsystem.

Saga Musix

Saga Musix

2011-02-06 11:56

administrator   ~0000056

My best guess at the moment is that you should try setting the volume ramping to 0. The OpenMPT version misses the attack on the drums, which is probably due to a too high ramping value.

LPChip

LPChip

2011-02-06 16:28

manager   ~0000057

It doesn't matter much. I have the ramping on 42 (default) and have also set it to 0 to try and improve it. No difference there.

But its mostly noticable in the clarity of the lead which goes on longer and where the ramping has no additional effect.

I have to check if this also applies to modules, but I believe it does, although that wouldn't be a total surprise.

I will see if I can make a test module either using free VSTi's, or samples if it works that way there too.

Saga Musix

Saga Musix

2011-02-06 17:07

administrator   ~0000058

"I have to check if this also applies to modules" -- uhm what, you can do something else than modules in OpenMPT?

LPChip

LPChip

2011-02-06 17:31

manager   ~0000059

I seem to have missed the words "with samples only"

Modules with samples only. I haven't checked actively, but I have played modules with samples in them in the VSTi version, and I think (read: not sure, so will test) it sounded better too.

LPChip

LPChip

2011-04-19 10:12

manager   ~0000148

Yesterday, I discovered that EnergyXT adds some EQing to the OpenMPT VSTi, which seems to be generating this quality improvement.

When I disable that EQing in EnergyXT there isn't any auditable difference anymore.

There still is a matter that renoise produces superior sound, but its not a bug anymore. I suspect renoise to have a better resampling method or something.

ticket can be closed.

LPChip

LPChip

2011-04-19 10:13

manager   ~0000149

Seems to be a customer error. Nothing to fix.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2011-02-01 17:01 LPChip New Issue
2011-02-01 21:25 relabs Note Added: 0000047
2011-02-01 21:47 Saga Musix Note Added: 0000048
2011-02-02 16:14 LPChip Note Added: 0000049
2011-02-02 17:23 LPChip Note Added: 0000050
2011-02-02 23:30 LPChip File Added: Openmpt_issue_000063.png
2011-02-02 23:41 LPChip Note Added: 0000051
2011-02-03 00:08 LPChip File Added: Openmpt_issue_000063_closeup.jpg
2011-02-06 11:56 Saga Musix Note Added: 0000056
2011-02-06 16:28 LPChip Note Added: 0000057
2011-02-06 17:07 Saga Musix Note Added: 0000058
2011-02-06 17:31 LPChip Note Added: 0000059
2011-04-19 10:12 LPChip Note Added: 0000148
2011-04-19 10:13 LPChip Note Added: 0000149
2011-04-19 10:13 LPChip Status new => closed
2011-04-19 10:13 LPChip Assigned To => LPChip
2011-04-19 10:13 LPChip Resolution open => fixed
2011-04-19 10:13 LPChip Fixed in Version => OpenMPT 1.19.01.00 (upgrade first)
2011-04-19 12:38 Saga Musix Assigned To LPChip =>
2011-04-19 12:38 Saga Musix Resolution fixed => won't fix
2011-04-19 12:38 Saga Musix Fixed in Version OpenMPT 1.19.01.00 (upgrade first) =>