View Issue Details
|OpenMPT 1.19.01.00 (upgrade first)
|OpenMPT 1.20.01.00 (upgrade first)
|Fixed in Version
|OpenMPT 1.20.01.00 (upgrade first)
|0000112: Template files
We often use the same setup for creating tracks (MPTM, Modern tempo, Tempo=192, Speed=12, certain plugins, etc.) and we have to reset these parameters every time we begin new track. (Small adjustments are made as the idea begins to take shape.) We keep a handy blank file with all of our parameters already set and re-load that every time we start anew, but there are a couple of problems with that. First, the load folder and the save folder are not the same as we keep open projects separate from produced or "backburner" projects and blank modules. So, when it's time to save the project (at least for the first time), we have to navigate to a different folder than from whence we loaded the blank module. Then if we need to use another blank for some reason we have to navigate back when loading it.
I know i'm making us sound like crybabies, but be patient. I have a requested solution: Template files.
Just like in graphics and word processor programs, a template track would have all of your preset data (in the format you 've saved it in) that you tend to use for most tracks, and will probably use (or will only need to make minor adjustments to) as you go thru the creation process. The command would be in the File >> New submenu and would either list all of your templates, or open a preset folder (specified in the General Options tab) so you can choose the template. There could be also be "factory-shipped" standard format templates for the various tracker formats in their native (compatibility) mode, which would preclude all of MPT's hacks.
The template itself is not loaded, but rather a COPY of it is, and an immediate autosave is done containing the template name and its index (in case you have other backups still extant in your backups folder), plus the backup index if you're doing multiple copies. (And if for some reason you back out before doing anything with the template copy, the autosave of the copy is deleted to save disk space.)
A "Save as Template" menu option of course would be helpful, so you can save a copy of an edited track separately as a template.
I myself compose many different types of music, so i can see myself using a lot different templates. So if this is to be implemented, the MPT developer should consider that a user can create, save, and use a vast number of templates (careful about listing them in one menu).
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|Tested code revision (in case you know it)
Just a note to say I'm on favour of this feature :D
Mega++ from me too -- though I've begun using one 'MasterProject.mptm' file containing seperate sequences (songs or ideas), the ability to have predefined templates for specific kinds of compositions would be better as it would at least reduce clutter inside the track (instruments/vsti's/samples you used in one song but not in another FE).
Thanks for picking this up, Relabs! Let us know if you can of your progress, your thoughts on this part of the project, and if you have any questions from the user's POV. Hopefully the vision and the implementation can stay joined. ;)
Next dev build is expected to have the feature available for testing.
I'd be happy and honored to play a part! :)
Just download the source and compile it: http://modplug.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/modplug?revision=932&view=revision
would if I could.. I was mentioning to relabs that I'd eagerly provide feedback as he'd assigned me to, though.. ;)
A testing version is now available at http://sagagames.de/stuff/mptrack.exe
Everything seems to work great, though here are my notes. Some if not all will be 'nitt-picky' but they should just be points to consider more than anything else as this is a feature.. ;)
Things to Like:
If you wanna go all the way:
Thoughts, though, on the 'consider' items?
<blockquote>When you choose "Save as Template" the file's still marked as new/modified in the title bar via the asterisk.</blockquote>
Of course it is still marked as modified, because you just saved a copy of the current module to the template directory, but you still work on the original file (try saving it - you will still save to the old file and you won't overwrite the template). Why would you want to close the original file right after creating a template from it? That would be really annoying if you are working a tune and think that it could serve as a good template.
<blockquote>To do more with the first point: When opening a template, would it be a good idea to force a dialog onto the user to require a filename to use for their new file?</blockquote>
Forcing to do something is never a good thing. I don't get your point anyway, because you cannot overwrite the template by hitting the save button - OpenMPT should ask you for a new filename when doing so - or does it not in your case? That would be really strange. And how is autosave supposed to do "damage" anyway?
FFS I had a response typed and got an invalid security token asking if I'd filled the damned thing out twice (no.) I don't want to type it all again. Just nevermind.
(more or less already covered by Saga Musix, but I'll add my thoughts nevertheless)
<blockquote>When you choose "Save as Template" the file's still marked as new/modified in the title bar via the asterisk. Also once saved, perhaps consider CLOSING the template file automatically..? Help to prevent someone modifying templates accidentally...</blockquote>
Once a file gets saved as a template, it shouldn't "know" it was saved as a template so further saving will modify the original file instead of the template file.
<blockquote>Sometimes clicking on File->Open Template does nothing (could just be my imagination perhaps... though it distinctly did nothing 3 times while I waited, earlier, lol..</blockquote>
Well possible; feedback is welcome if you find further notices about this (e.g. if you get confident that it isn't your imagination)
<blockquote>To do more with the first point: When opening a template, would it be a good idea to force a dialog onto the user to require a filename to use for their new file? This would also prevent accidental overwrite and potential damage done to viable autosaves as well... currently the filename IS the template file; which isn't behaving any differently (that I can see) from a mptm -- part of the point as I'd understood it was to create a way via safeguarding one's preferences into a template system, to avoid such things (and also to avoid common setup tasks)</blockquote>
I'm not in favour of forcing saving. The template file related autosaving behaviour isn't thoroughly thought so it might need improvement.
As I attempted to type before (this is the summarized version): I was multitasking while looking thru this the first time and since noticed the behavior exhibited is correct.. the template file doesn't run any risk of being overwritten unless someone browses to it's folder and does so purposefully. Everything else aside; relabs thanks for the added insight and kindly worded thoughts; jojo, damn dude wish you'd step down from the super trip thing.. always seems like your chiding and/or talking down to me. Another's point of view that's not the same as mine or yours isn't necesarilly wrong or idiotic.. ;P
Just sayin -- you can think whatever you want of me (anyone can -- I don't care) -- it'd just be nice to not see it written publicly almost as though being berated .. if only between the lines.... As perspective isn't universal, neither is humor... I just encounter the tone in your responses more often than not .. and such things are demotivating factors to some.. to say the least. ;) If nothing else, just be aware you could come across like a megalomaniac to people. Not to sell you short of course... 'twas just yesterday I was rolling out the "thank you's" for the both of you..! I understand things get tense.. just feel like the brunt of tense-ness is sent my way sometimes, all I'm sayin..
Sidenote sortof.. where is this Lightwave.evm file coming from, that's in my template folder? I've deleted it once and it's back again -- come to mention it, it shows up in the open template menu listing as well though it's quite obviously not a template.. is it related to OMPT's operation? Either way (could be a fluke on my end as such things are normal) perhaps the menu/display code that lists the templates should be looked at to filter only template files in case something like this happens elsewhere..
christofori: Kindly ignore when I sound like my opinion / point of view is the only valid opinion; that's what I may think sometimes but don't feel irritated of it. ;)
<blockquote>where is this Lightwave.evm file coming from, that's in my template folder</blockquote>
<blockquote>Just sayin -- you can think whatever you want of me (anyone can -- I don't care) -- it'd just be nice to not see it written publicly almost as though being berated .. if only between the lines.... As perspective isn't universal, neither is humor... I just encounter the tone in your responses more often than not .. and such things are demotivating factors to some.. to say the least. ;) If nothing else, just be aware you could come across like a megalomaniac to people.</blockquote>
In an effort to get this thread back on track, Jojo does not mean to be condescending or antisocial. I also once thought of him as "short" with people, and have blasted him in many posts about his attitude, but have come to realize that English is not his first language (even though he's pretty good with it), and German is a very assertive language and may often seem forceful or curt to those who think in German (which Jojo is, i believe). He IS more understanding than he comes off, and while he may have somewhat of an antisocial streak, he is young, German, smart, and confidant. To American sensibilities this might rub us the wrong way, but, like he said, don't take it personally -- he doesn't mean anything personal; he's just matter-of-fact about musical and programming issues.
The only thing i would add is a keyboard shortcut to save your work as a template.
Also when you save as template show the 'TemplateModules' folder by default, instead the «last saved» directory.
<blockquote>Also when you save as template show the 'TemplateModules' folder by default, instead the «last saved» directory.</blockquote>
<blockquote>The only thing i would add is a keyboard shortcut to save your work as a template.</blockquote>
<blockquote>Quote: Also when you save as template show the 'TemplateModules' folder by default, instead the «last saved» directory.
But exactly that is just being done...? </blockquote>
As jojo says, the folder the templates are saved to always is the template folder; though as jmkz makes the valid point: it would be good to SEE that folder in the 'save as template' dialog (being the user's interface, after all!) so that we could see other template filenames and know then and there what couldn't be used, so as to not be informed after making a decision ("file already exists; overwrite?" in this case should be extraneous..) -- you see the point? It's only reinforcement for the user... but it's things like that which make a good program great art. ;) Which thankfully as I must confirm, it IS really already doing that! I just notice a point though.. if templates are meant to be universal(ly usable..) in other trackers, then everything's 100% perfect which is likely the case... however, if there be anything at all about a template that might in some way limit it to being usable only by OMPT, then it's currently in need of adjustment... FE: I open an IT modfule I wrote a decade ago almost, and go to save it as a template, and it's still an IT. Just checking to make sure that (perhaps in other words) there be no MPT 'hacks' in the template files... ;)
Also I must appologise for letting the negative things around me that day affect me so -- I know better. Jojo, you'd think I'd have remembered back to the CULTURE lessons they taught in those 2 years of German I took in high school here; I did, of course, after the negatives had gotten to me so much I finally saw what was happening..! I make no excuse for those actions.. I used to always 'wear my feelings on my sleeve' as they say; now it's very infrequent indeed, but still I'm sorry it happened. :) I know I'm not in any place to advise others how to act... didn't mean to be doing so either TBH -- but that's the funny thing about negativity.. it perpetuates into one's mind (if allowed to....!!) and changes your life focus accordingly... can't remember what you know to be true already (German culture in discourse? Negative 'energy' perpetuates? Doing something you know not to do?? Sheesh, I learned those things about 2 decades ago!) Just was humbling to me to see how quickly they (negatives) feed. Hope no one's allowed the ones I brought here, to affect(/infect) themselves as well! If so, forgive me please. :)
<blockquote>it would be good to SEE that folder in the 'save as template' dialog (being the user's interface, after all!) so that we could see other template filenames and know then and there what couldn't be used, so as to not be informed after making a decision ("file already exists; overwrite?" in this case should be extraneous..) -- you see the point?</blockquote>
|Note Added: 0000132
|Note Added: 0000213
|new => assigned
|=> OpenMPT 1.20.01.00 (upgrade first)
|Note Added: 0000268
|Note Added: 0000269
|assigned => feedback
|Note Added: 0000270
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|Note Added: 0000274
|Note Added: 0000284
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|Note Edited: 0000285
|Note Edited: 0000285
|Note Added: 0000286
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|Note Added: 0000289
|Note Edited: 0000289
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|feedback => assigned
|Note Added: 0000310
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|Note Added: 0000318
|assigned => resolved
|open => fixed
|Fixed in Version
|=> OpenMPT 1.20.00.* (old testing)